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November 14, 2008

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James

God isn't it depressing to hear that "will you/won't you go in with FF?" thing back again - it seemed like that was the only thing Labour pols got asked for about 3 years prior to the last election.

More substantively - I think we need to maintain a distinction between two types of argument for a greater role for the state.

One is the philosophical argument - social democracy versus neo-liberalism (and versus christian democracy as well if you like). This is the general argument that social democracy (basically the "Nordic model") represents an attractive combination of economic efficiency and social justice/security/inclusion. This is the argument we made 5 years ago and will still be making 5 years from now.

The other is the Keynesian argument for fiscal stimulus to compensate for the unused capacity for economic output during recession - the state puts unemployed labour and capital to work when the private sector won't.

I've been thinking about this and I have some doubts over a Keynesian strategy for Ireland. For big countries, the case for fiscal stimulus is incontrovertible - hence the packages on the way in most of the big economies. One potential pitfall of fiscal stimulus is that part of the stimulus spills over into imports. This can cause a serious balance of payments (and exchange rate) shock - cf the disastrous experience of the French Socialists in 1981-2, which many took as proof that "Keynesianism in one country" was no longer possible given the growing integration of the world economy.

Obviously we don't need to worry about affecting our exchange rate due to the euro. And clearly there's no danger of "Keynesianism in one country" at the moment either. But a small country inevitably sees more of its stimulus spill into imports (since we already spend way more on imports as a proportion of GDP). This means less bang for our stimulus buck - and that buck costs us more to borrow.

One conclusion is that it makes more sense to do stimulus through government spending rather than putting money in people's pockets (i.e. tax cuts), since the government can make sure a) that it is actually spent and not saved and b) that it is spent domestically. But even then some of the multiplier will go to imports. And the collapse in revenues is so dramatic that even Lenihan's deflationary (i.e. anti-Keynesian) budget still involved a deficit of 6.5% of GDP (maybe worse).

Also: we will see the benefit of other countries' stimulus (i.e. for our exports) regardless of what we do.

So I'd be interested to hear any thoughts on how attractive or viable Keynesianism is in a small open economy such as our own. Didn't Keynesianism fall flat on its face the last time we tried it here (i.e. mid-'70s to early '80s)?

Gerry

If you put more money in people's pockets then some of it will certainly go on imports. So we should therefore make an egalitarian virtue out of economic necessity and target the poorest - whose consumption is quicker, more direct and local and less likely to be diverted towards luxury imports and foreign holidays.

It does indeed make more sense to focus on government spending as a means of stimulus and now is a good time to re-emphasise the "social wage" element of spending. As this recession is likely to be painful and long-lasting it should be easier for the left to make the case for more egalitarian public policy for sustainable economic reasons as well as on the grounds of social justice.

Tomaltach

One problem for the left - in terms of the argument for say higher taxes - is that the voters in Ireland seem to be against it. (I know this isn't directly related to the argument about borrowing, but it is related to the idea that the left can make headway out of this). According to a poll reported in today's Irish Times "When voters were asked if the Government should place more emphasis on spending cuts or tax increases to deal with the financial crisis 52 per cent opted for spending cuts, while 32 per cent backed tax increases and 16 per cent had no opinion.". It seems the electorate just doesn't want a more left wing analysis.

Michael Taft

James, you hit the problem on the head - how can we pursue an expanionist policy without ending up in the same position as we did in the 1970s/80s. First, the O'Donoghue experiment failed because it didn't prioritise the export base, over-estimated the ability of the indigenous sector to meet increased demand and under-estimated the limitations of a small home market. Result: import-fuelled inflation, continuing job losses and fiscal crisis. What a miscalculation.

To learn from that, while still maintaining an expanionist approach, means an emphasis on public investment tied with the medium-term strategy of building a new enterprise base. This still means pain in the short-term but the issue here is to shorten the technical recession and hasten the closing of the output gap (the hangover stage).

In this respect, I share your priorities, Gerry, though I would still be dubious about the effects of stimulating incomes - for the simple reason that even if targeted at low-average incomes, we may not get as much bang for our buck - though I would be open to proposals. One that is being pushed by economists in the Obama administration is to increase unemployment benefit. Here, that would mean re-introducing pay-related benefit. We're not going to stop job losses in the short-term. But these job losses are the biggest drain on demand. At least we can ensure that incomes don't dip to dangerous levels.

Tomaltach - two things I'd point out. First, higher income groups favoured tax increases - the AB class by 55-39%. In other words, those with the money accepted the need to make a bigger contriubtion. But more importantly, if the left-wing analysis is that general tax increases are necessary to resolve our fiscal problems - well, that's not an analysis I share (and I must say, I'm not sure where progressive parties stand on this critical fiscal issue). General tax increases reduce what little demand there is in the economy. What the Left should be arguing is for a fiscal stimulus package based on borrowing, targeted taxation on unproductive capital (i.e. the property holdings of the wealthiest 10% income group) and the opening up of the Pension Fund to commercial capital projects in Ireland (e.g. Metro North, new generation broadband, repurchase of Eircom, the inter-connector and grid upgrades, etc.).

This doesn't immediately address the issue that James raises - how can we expand while avoiding the pitfalls witnessed three decades ago. But it, at least, allows us to escape the limited parameters of the fiscal conservative consensus - namely, that the deficit must be prioritised (as if it was the cause, rather than the effect of the decline) and that it must be addressed by either cutting spending and/or raising general taxes.

Tomaltach

Michael - yes, I agree that it is important to keep the borrowing option on the table and not to mix it with simply increasing taxes. If we take the short to medium term view and the need for a stimulus that's one thing. But in the long term I'm pretty sure that it _is_ a stated priority of some on the left to increase our level of spending as a proportion of GDP. Many argue that in the long run that is the only way to build high class public services in health, education and transport. The finding I referred to suggests that the Irish electorate as a whole (the AB class are, after all, a relatively small percentage of the electorate) rejects the idea of higher tax - not just now because they think it dampens demand - but long term. That has been what I have sensed over these past 15 years and why the low tax bidding war that eventually spread to labour became so appealing.
So I still maintain there is a real challenge there for the long term.

Back to the immediate. I applaud your suggestions in relation to borrowing though I'm not totally convinced yet that our borrowing for current spending should be significantly increased. (Would you agree that in terms of current spending we should now be thinking of not letting borrowing get much higher?). In term of the capital spend - that too must have limits. Perhaps we are nowhere near those limits, but surely they exist. We cannot simply borrow as much as we want, because a) those who lend will recognise we may not be able to pay and b) we are shifting a burden onto the next generation which is certainly something that cannot be ignored.

Given that we have guaranteed the banks and may have to borrow significantly for capital there, and that our overall borrowing requirement is looking pretty high, what'd I'd like to understand better is, where is the safe borrowing limit? In other words, how high can we go as a percentage of GNP/GDP without actually tipping over into unsustainable territory?

This does not mean I'm a fiscal conservative with an ideology that mandates balanced budgets. It's just back to what you mention - the danger of going back to where we were three decades ago.

As a footnote - the idea of channeling Irish savings and Irish wealth into productive uses as you suggest - is certainly something that I would go along with.

Gerry Burke

Labour needs to start demonstrating that FF and FG are essentially two tribes with the same ideology. Indeed, FG seems to be slipping nicely into the vacated PD shoes and getting away with more of the same tax-lowering twaddle, thanks to the calm demeanour of Richard Bruton. But it's all style and little substance.

Labour needs to put clear blue water between itself and both FF and FG. The two need tarring with the same brush.

The evidence for a higher tax base is fairly substantial - have a look at Jeffrey Sachs' 2006 analysis in Scientific American of Nordic countries compared with English-speaking countries http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=the-social-welfare-state (if the link doesn't work just google Jeffrey-Sachs+welfare-state and it should come up). The key seems to be Nordic countries' prudent, collective investment in basic research and R&D - this yields high quality jobs. Consider Denmark, which has a tax rate of 50% of GDP (compared with less than 30% in Ireland). Denmark's tax revenue comes almost entirely from only two sources - personal income tax and sales tax. The International Monetary Fund's latest World Economic Outlook (October 2008) predicts. almost incredibly, that Denmark will have 2.6% unemployment in 2009, compared with 7% in Ireland. Denmark will have a general government surplus of 3% while Ireland will have a 4.6% deficit. In other words, Danes remain in a position to put money aside while continuing to benefit from high quality universal health care and education. And they have virtually eradicated the scourge of poverty.

In stark contrast, thanks to years of mindlessly irresponsible government in Ireland, which allowed the economy to spin out of control by failing to moderate the flow of capital, our younger citizens now face an uncertain and probably bleak future. The shortsighted improvidence of the boom years, during which the government spurned many opportunities to implement a prudent system of taxation that would have left some legacy for the next generation, is to be repeated in the bust years by the astonishing stupidity of cutting back on our children's education.

If we had, during the boom years, increased the tax take from 29% of GDP to about 34% (still lower than other western European country), and simply put the money aside, we'd probably have a sovereign fund of €100 billion now, the interest alone of which would sort out this year's budget deficit.

Barack Obama, in his convention speech in Denver, said: “Government cannot solve all our problems, but what it should do is that which we cannot do for ourselves: protect us from harm and provide every child a decent education; keep our water clean and our toys safe; invest in new schools and new roads and new science and technology.”

In Ireland, we are being governed by imbeciles. FG will be no better.

It falls to Labour to present an alternative vision for Ireland, radically different to the FF/FG vision.

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