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November 26, 2008

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FERGUS O'ROURKE

First, a disclaimer: I haven't read the full article yet.

I can't wait, though, to object to what is an apparent leitmotiv viz. to get the Irish economy out of the recession, what is needed is more spending.

I don't necessarily agree with that simplistic Keynesianism, but even if I did, given that Ireland is a very open economy, it would not necessarily follow that a massive increase in Irish State spending would be what was appropriate in current circumstances.

FERGUS O'ROURKE

By the way, in referring to the open-ness of the Irish economy, I have in mind the significance of trade flows, and not, as someone complained recently, to absence of tariff protection.

Ian McArdle

For the Left is right and the Right is wrong - brilliant, should be on tee shirts.

Michael Taft

I do understand your hesitation about increasing spending, Fergus, in a simplistic way. In the late 1970s Fianna Fail launched a massive stimulus programme of increasing current expenditure and cutting taxes. This was the brain-child of Martin O’Donoghue who hoped that the increase in demand would provoke indigenous enterprise to supply it. This did’t happen and the 1980s recession shortly followed (this initiative was labelled by some as ‘vulgar Keynesianism’).

However, we should be aware that (a) economies in a recession are marked by lack of money; the appropriate response is to inject money in it; (b) the private sector as a whole is not able to do this; (c) the only agency capable of doing this is the state. That’s why the US, Germany, China, the UK, Australia, the EU Commission are launching stimulus programmes. Even the head of the IMF is calling for such programmes - a welcome break from their traditional neo-liberalism.

Of course, all depends on the package. Just spreading tax rebates around the place, or cutting general VAT levels could be potentially disastrous. That’s why I specifically suggested infrastructure, indigenous enterprise developmet and credit provision (half of the programme is taken up with these points). This is the best way, in my opinion, to shorten the length of the recession (and the hang-over effect) and place the economy on a new, more competitive plane. Is it a gamble? Yes. And that’s why we need these debates - to help shorten the odds.

Tomaltach

Michael,
Yes, I think many people would support this kind of debate, certainly the government's position should be challenged so that the debate is more open.

You admit your plan is a gamble. I would have a few questions concerning the borrowing. Why pick 55% GDP? Why not 65%? or 85%?

If 55% GDP is optimum, then surely say 70% is not. But we may have to somehow bolster the banks with heavy borrowing, so wouldn't further commitments leave us very exposed? Or would you suggest we renege on the bank guarantee?

You mention the 1.5% of GDP in repayments currently. If we hit 55% of GDP or 60%, what would that represent in terms of repayments (as a % GDP)?

And this is where I think your analogy with a mortgage is flawed. An extra 2 or 3 per cent of a burden on a mortgage payer mightn't be significant, but cutting two or three points out of future growth is hugely significant is it not? I meant we know the dramatic difference between an economy growing at 0% and at 3%. In the end massive borrowing is transferring the burden from this generation to the next. That is fair enough - perhaps we can accept a social contract whereby this transfer happens in a way to even out the more violent downturns in the business cycle. But what if this generation simply lived to excess for a decade, is it morally right to ask the future to pay for it?

In the end, if I could be convinced that the risk of a rerun of the 80s (in terms of deficit spending etc) was low and that the government had the competence, courage, and the tools to make good use of the borrowed money, then I'd certainly support it. But I still need some convincing.

Michael Taft

Tomaltach - the issues you raise (as well as James on a previous post) are the most important that people like myslef - who believe in an expansionary programme - must address in a convincing way. Can I promise that I will do a blog on this next week and address these - because I'd like to give it the fullest answer it deserves?

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