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« May 25th Afternoon: The Recession Diaries | Main | Taking a Break »

May 28, 2009

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Dr. X

>>>does such a government exist within the current set of political parties?

My sources say no. Thanks for the above post btw.

t g macamhloaibh

I tend to agree with barratree. Given the prevailing notion of both FG and FF that labour is almost an evil cost to business, can we really expect the labour expended on any public project to be more than temporary and disposable?

t g macamhloaibh

I should also add that your insights ring true and seem constructive.

However, a Keynesian solution requires a commitment by the govt instituting the program to have the lont-term concerns of the entire population as the ultimate focus. Our present and future govts do not. Not because they are stupid or evil. They know we will not be generating national supluses of wealth. They know we operate in a very mature Western economy where no new block-buster industry has emerged in over 3 decades. They know it is easy to buy from the East but very hard to sell to the East. They know that technological advances are reducing the amount of jobs available. They know multinational can game national tax regimes (we depend upon this ourselves) and fully utilize vertical integration to disburse knowledge and constrain wages.

Therefore, as politicians who cannot offer all wage earners a decent income nor future prospects for growth, they plan to cater for those who can operate in the new knowledge economy. These jobs tend to be sparse but well paid. The can build a sub-structure around these jobs and opportunties. Hopefully enough to win the majority of seats in any future Dáil.

And they will probably succeed. The only alternative in town, Socialism, continues to pursue unpopular natioanlisation schemes and doesn't offer an alternative and viable economic structure or policy.

The sad part is that there are plenty of talented socialists in Ireland with the economic acumen to create the altenative, popularly supported and viable economic policies.

They seem to be looking for a political party. Instead why don't they gather their thoughts and energies into a central location and provide the leadership our politicians lack. Socialist politicans certainly have the passion. Isn't it time to provide them with the policies to go along with the passion?

Mack

t g macamhloaibh -

They know we operate in a very mature Western economy where no new block-buster industry has emerged in over 3 decades.

Personal computers (hardware, software, gaming), mobile phones, the internet (advertising, e-commerce, VoIP etc), advanced biotechnology, advanced finance (e.g. derivatives), advanced electronics (digital cameras / videocameras) - all absolutely huge industries and much more too..

t g macamhloaibh

mack -

many of which are all relatively mature technologies with well established companies whose economies of scale do not present surplus wealth creation on a broad economic scale. As I already stated, many other cited techs are not scalable but are niche opporunities and will be exploited by knowledge leaders and often not generate broad labour returns.

You might want to do a quick cost benefit analysis of advanced finanical products. These products create huge returns for a small percentage of players and have added systemic economic risk (the results which we are currently living with)which call into question their utility to society at large.

Mack

t g macamhloaibh

Fair point re derivatives.

They're all new technologies from the past 30 years though. There's been no shortage of innovation in that period, Western economies have grown by large amounts throughout the period. Certainly Ireland has changed enormously. My guess is we'll see continued innovation over the next 30 years, who knows in what? I bought a robot that vacuums our house for us last week (works pretty well too).

t g macamhloaibh

Well mack, I don't disagree with your points per say. I hope that Ireland does develop some of these technologies (the talent is there) and that the economy prospers; although I'd argue that much of the polity and civility of Ireland was lost during the economic transformation.

Maybe it's the degree to which technological changes, and the industries or businesses created, and will impact on everyone that really matters. If the majority of the wealth created goes into very few pockets, while the masses enjoy the often questionable utility value of the production (often alot of gadgets), to what end is society served or advanced?

Mack

t g macamhloaibh -

If that's what happened, then I think we'd need a rethink. I'm not convinced that is what happened though. Go back slightly further, say 40 years, and most houses didn't central heating. Go back only 20 years and holidays outside of Ireland were rare. Go back 50 or 60 years and most toilets were outside, a little further and a lot of households didn't have electricity. Today most households have a car, a television (often big and with huge numbers of cable or satellite channels), mobile phones, computers, a holiday once a year (more in many cases) and even the most basic (undilabated) housing in Ireland today would seem luxurious to the aristocracy of centuries past, on the basis of improvements previously listed. Average life expectancy has increased massively, while infant mortality has collapsed.

I take your point about some of the polity and civility being lost in the south - I don't know as I didn't grow up here, and for me the changes in the north have been massively and overwhelmingly positive. At least one positive from the recession is the frenetic pace has slowed and it might open opportunities to save some of what has been lost, before it goes forever. And once we reach a decent standard of living for all, maybe we should look at accumulating time rather than money...

t g macamhloaibh

mack

Interesting point about the relationships between time and money. Society may be better served by using some leisure time in the raring of children etc. rather than chasing every consumer good or appearance of affluence.

I too hail from the North but have lived in the South for some time. I also agree that the changes in the six have been for the better and hope that the old sectarian divide eventually meets a bitter end. However, it's time to build a better society - not just a society based solely on material accomplishments alone.

I'd say by our posts that we'd eventually agree on too many points! No fun! :-(
good luck

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