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September 03, 2012

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Desmond O'Toole

Excellent post, Michael, which underscores the "anaemic" state of our financial contributions to the public good in Ireland. Taken together with the absence of a credible level of local taxation on residential property it just reinforces the lack of funding available for sustainable, high quality public services in Ireland. You also write that there is no government "intention" to increase PRSI contributions, but it is worth noting the extensive media and political commentary in response to Joan Burton's paper to the Tom Johnson Summer School in which she pointed out the growing deficit in the social insurance fund and the lamentable level of social insurance contributions made by BOTH employers and workers to that fund. As I've said elsewhere, if we want European levels of public services we need to pay European levels of tax (inc. higher social insurance and a progressive property tax).

Michael Taft

Desmond - thanks for that. I'm aware of the Minister's intervention. However, my fear is that if increasing social insurance contributions (at least on workers) is just a fiscal adjustment measure to overcome the Social Insurance Fund deficit, then it will only be viewed as another 'tax'. Admittedly, the options open to the Minister and the Government are becoming more and more limited (that is what four years of mindless austerity will do). That is why there is a need to roll-out a long-term vision of where we want to be in, say, 10 years. To my mind, social insurance is key - at least for those who desire a progressive European system.

de Charette

Michael, you rightly point out that social insurance contributions are well below the European average.

However the most glaring anomaly in the system seems to have completely escaped your notice.

That would be the hundreds of thousands of above-average earners would are either completely absolved of any PRSI liability, or else effectively have their liability paid for them by the state (by virtue of being placed on a higher salary scale than their exempt colleagues, in order to cover the difference in after-PRSI income).

Strange that you didn\\\'t find this bizarre situation worthy of any comment what-so-ever in a post bemoaning \\\"pitifully low\\\" insurance contributions (after all, one can\\\'t get much lower than zero).

Michael Taft

de Charette - thanks for that. Can you please be more specific about what group you are talking about - the hundreds of thousands that are absolved of any PRSI liability? Thanks.

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de Charette

Michael, is that a trick question?

Surely youre aware of the PRSI arrangements for public servants?

Specifically that higher pay scales for the same work are applied to post-April 1995 entrants, with the effect that the state pays the PRSI contribution on their behalf?

Ciaran

I agree with 'de Charette' - let's put these public servants on the higher scale and get them paying PRSI like the rest.

de Charette

Ciaran, why not just go the whole hog and award all state employees another pay rise to cover their USC and household charge liabilities?

Obviously youve missed the point of taxes being to raise *actual* funds to run the state, as opposed to window-dressing in order to give the appearance that a tax is being paid, though at no net cost to the supposed tax-payer.

Mathew

And what do we do about all this? Post blogs, sit in the pubs (if we can afford it) Bitch and complain but as usual don't get off our asses and actually fight back and let the Gov know we have had enough! I am 71 and I no longer live I simply exist! If I was 20 year younger I would be out there doing something about it. My ancestors stood up against injustice, and NO I am not saying to do it in the same manner but civil disobedience and protests could force this so call gov that is supposed to be working in our best interest that seems to have forgotten they work for us and as such can been sacked. And who says we cannot have another election if we want? When a government lies and taxes its people into poverty (Taxation without representation)we have a duty and right to kick them out or are we still living in the dark ages? When they make promises to get elected and do not keep them( within reason) then they he/she should be removed without a pension or only a partial pension depending on what they have or haven't done. They mean test us with no hesitation and have productivity reports on us, why should they be any different? We may end up with less politicians but at least the ones that would be there would do their job and know what the consequences would be if they did not. I am sick to death of hearing words and more words, my family is spread all over the world, I have one meal a day and consider myself lucky to have that. keep daily track of my electrical usage and keep the heat at a minimum. If it wasn't for my family sending me money from abroad I would have nothing. What the hell happened to the Irish? Have we all turned into sheep being lead to the the slaughter? Where is the honor and dignitary we once had? Do I sound bitter? you are right I am! Most if not all of us worked our whole lives, payed our taxes and looked forward to the day we could relax with a modest income in our old age,that has been taken from us through cuts, taxes. and of course that famous word 'levies' which they impose on us however and when ever they fee like it. Its seems perfectly acceptable for the government to have our children have to leave the country to survive and help the ones left behind or as that (I can't put in print what I would like to call him) the TD that said they made a 'career choice' There I have said my piece, you may not like it or print it, I am at the point I could care less but at least I said it and feel better by doing it. If we do nothing then we deserve what we get!

Andy

Ireland is an average taxed economy yet so progressive.

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